Interview

Interviewed by Mariela Franganillo
Filmed by Jeff Milton
New York City/12 May 2007

Interviewed by Jeff Milton
Filmed by Jeff Milton

New York City/11 May 2007

by Jackie Ling Wong / Argentina/1 January 2005

Scene: Carlos and I are sitting in Cafe Kass down the street from his music school on Jose Hernandez. He is currently working on the next Narcotango album, renovating the school, and multi tasking the heck out of life. I was happy to find that Luiza Paes’ comments about his warmth and openess were correct.

Q: How would you define yourself?

Carlos: I don’t know that much about astrology but I do know that I’m a Gemini and my ascendent is in Gemini. (the sign of twins) So 2 x 2 = 4. I identify in that way about myself. I have many ways of life. I am a musician and composer which gives me the ability to have a connection to life in a sensitive way but it is not enough. I need to do something. I have to be a producer. I have a brain that has many portions. I like to use everything. I need to move and change because I don’t like to be boring.

The 20 years with the music school helped me alot. I manage the school so I need knowledge about people. We have 150 students so we also organize bands and shows. The students are 5 – 17 years old. It helps me to be a better organizer (as a producer). I also realized that I don’t like to have other people telling me what to do. I like my time. If someone pressures me, I don’t work. It is important for me to have freedom.

Q: So how did your journey start?

Carlos: I started to work in 2000 after I started to dance tango. I started dancing at the beginning of 2000. I was in a festival playing with a Tango group when I noticed Tango teachers giving classes. I had been playing tango for 10years and never danced! I had nothing to do so I took the class. There was a strong connection is this class… a light…so now I have a new passion…dancing.

Then I traveled totally alone and made the tango route through the USA and Europe. I took my guitar and went to milongas and asked if I could sing and play my guitar. I did this for 4 months….just with my guitar. I danced every night (now with 6 mos of dance experience). I returned to Buenos Aires and danced 4 – 5 nights. At the same time I was writing songs and decided to record them, which was the Aldea Album.

Q: What I found interesting in that album, is that you introduced songs which were electronic… like a sneak preview of Narcotango.

Carlos: Yes. At milongas, I started to feel that my body wanted to dance to something more related to our time. I love traditional but I also love to live in this moment. Also I was looking at other dancers from Europe who have different ways to dance. I needed to dance to contemporary music. At night, I would listen to Tango at the milongas but at home I would listen to Tom Waits and discovered that I could Tango to Tom Waits music …and Bjork. I started experimenting in my studio.

I went to an outdoor milonga on Sunday and afterwards took some friends back to my studio to play the new music. I could see that there was a connection. I opened the doors to the studio and we started to dance. Until that moment I didn’t know that something big was happening. Until that moment, I was isolated… by myself creating. … playing many of the instruments and doing the recording engineering myself.

Q: So it must have been inspirational for you and reaffirming.

Carlos: Yes. I worked for 2 years on Narcotango. After I made a couple of tracks, I would give them to my friends. They would travel abroad and play the music. So people were familiar with my music one year before the release of the album. It was a huge motivation for me. Especially because the DJs in Buenos Aires did not want to play the music. Now, Mario Orlando (a DJ in Buenos Aires) played my music at the end of the evening at Sunderland Club. 6 milongueros started to dance and they were great! Mario introduced them to me.

Q: Who listens to your music? Who are the consumers?

Carlos: At the beginning I expected only Tango dancers. But now I can see that others like it too. When we perform here in Buenos Aires, people attend from outside Tango. The music is recorded from Tango so I was surprised that others would like it and buy the CD. Many TV programs use the music for introductions. It’s such a new sound for Tango. Now it is played in bars especially in Palermo.

Q: So walking around… hearing your music everywhere… do you feel famous?

Carlos: Yes… well no.. my music is famous. They know the music but not me. The music is more important than the person. I am surprised when I receive email from all over the world.

It was such an explosion. Bajofondo’s album was released in May and Narco Tango was released in August. Not many people here in Buenos Aires knew about Gotan. It worked out for me because Universal wa producing the Bajofondo album so the promotion for electronic tango was tremendous. So in the stores when people would ask for Bajofondo, the sales people would also suggest Narcotango. So the timing was perfect for me.

Q: My first exposure was to Gotan and I loved it.

Carlos: Gotan was released at the same moment I produced my first CD so people say that we were experimenting at the same time.

Q: What would you say are the differences between the three groups?

Carlos: Gotan and Bajofondo are more electronic. My music has more of a tango flavor. I dance tango so the motivation is different. I understand that the Argentine who plays in Gotan didn’t realize that people were playing his music at milongas.

Q: Where are most of your album sales?

Carlos: I think it is 1/2 in Argentina and 1/2 for export.

Q: So a perfect night at a milonga would be…?

Carlos: I like change. I don’t like a whole night of electronic but I also get bored with all traditional.

Q: Which are your favorite to dance to? of your music?

Carlos: Vi Luz y Subi Plano Secuencia Otro Luna Mejor Asi La Tropilla de la Zurda Humo

Track 4 is great for listening Un Paso Mas Alla

Q: So some of the pieces are better for listening?

Carlos: Sure. Once Chicho danced 2 tracks from my album and I asked him if he wanted to dance to new tracks. He said yes and it was incredible. And a great test for my music. I also dance with my girlfriend to test the music.

Q: Who do you like for traditional music?

Carlos: Pugliese, Di Sarli, Salgan, Troilo

Q: And less traditional?

Carlos: Pugliese and some Piazzollas.

Q: And what style do you dance?

Carlos: It depends on the music. My music – I like to dance open except the track Plano Secuencia which I dance close embrace .

The music drives my dance style and it also depends on my mood and partner. I started dancing close first. It was hard when I started learning open because at first the space felt empty. The mood is also so different for me. Open – I feel more like games, more fun, more creative, experimental. Close – I feel more sensitive, emotional.

visit his website at http://www.carloslibedinsky.com/

by Jackie Ling Wong / Argentina / 14 March 2005

Scene: Falcon contacted me through email and expressed his appreciation for the interviews on the website. I suggested that we rendezvous in Buenos Aires for an interview. He agreed. Personally, I didn’t know what to expect but was pleasantly surprised to encounter a very relaxed pleasant Argentine professional dancer without any pretensions. amazing…:-)

We met in the lobby of the Bauen hotel. I was late and almost missed him because the previous interview took longer than expected.

Q: A little history first… who was most influential in your development as a tango dancer?

Hector: I was 4 years old when I started dancing Folkloric and was 14 years old when I started dancing Tango. I began working with the Dinzels when I was 21 years old. Maestro Dinzel is profound as a Tango instructor. The most important highlight was working with Miguel Zotto in the Tango production Tango X 2. Miguel taught me so much. I knew how to dance socially but I learned a lot from him about the traditional aspects of Tango. Even though I might “know” a Tango concept, Miguel helped me “understand” it. And then there was Todaro in Buenos aires. When I met him, he was already very old and he danced Milonguero style. Todaro had a huge vocabulary.. it was unbelievable.

And of course, there was the show Tango Passion. I worked in many companies around the world.

Q: How would you define your style of dance?

Hector: I am very traditional… and an artist. I feel I dance real tango . I don’t do many lifts and I dance on the floor. I love close embrace socially and do as much as I can on stage. Of all the dances, Milonga traspie is my favorite and is probably what I am known for. I enjoy it

Q: Why?

Hector: Maybe because it was very difficult for me to learn… and also because it’s fun. Tango is so serious.. the music… Tango can be melancholy and I like it but sometimes I want to be more upbeat.

Q: Why do you think milonga traspie is so difficult for people to learn?

Hector: It is more difficult than Tango because the Tango gives you many possibilities to follow the music. In Milonga you must be exact in how you follow the music. Sometimes people think it’s the speed and, sure, the melody has speed. You can stop and wait in Tango. It is part of the choreography. That really doesn’t happen in milonga. You must be on tempo.

Q: What are the other differences between the Milonga and Tango?

Hector: Most of the Milonga steps you can do in Tango, but not most of the Tango steps in Milonga.

Q: Why do you say that?

Hector: …Because of following the music… following the beat. In Tango you can do decorations but in Milonga that is difficult.

Q: And what is required in the leader for Milonga?

Hector: The same rules as Tango. Open embrace or close embrace and it’s not necessary to take smaller steps. However, when you dance traspie, you can mix between regular and traspie. The contra-tempo needs to be small step… because the beat is shorter, so the step needs to be smaller. but regular milonga… sure take big steps. Also doing large steps in traspie would not be elegant.

Q: And for the follower?

Hector: She must know how to dance milonga traspie. It is difficult to do if you haven’t learned it. It’s also very important in traspie to follow the lead … not guess… go after the lead…

Also she must have relaxed legs and put her weight into the ground. In any folkloric dance you need to be grounded. In classical dance, the weight goes up. It’s the same for Tango, except you have more possibilities so your weight can go up. Additionally your weight must reach the floor exactly on the beat… and just once. Not twice.Some of the dancers, women and men, fly on the music… so you don’t know where your partner is. They must be grounded.

In Tango you can lie, but you can’t in Milonga because of the tempo. It’s difficult to teach the traspie because of the weight change. I try to explain that it’s like the feeling of regret… think I am going to step but change my mind.

Q: Where does the lead come from?

Hector: In close embrace and Milonga I use the chest.

Q: Can you tell when the follower is not following the chest and is thinking more of their feet?

Hector: I can realize when the follower is following the feet. It usually means that she or he is thinking about how they look… elegant… not the dance..

We don’t need to care about the mirror. Our mirror is inside. As a dancer you want to enjoy the dance. I dance very relaxed. No tension in my arms or my body or my mind. I go to the milonga to enjoy it.. not suffer. So I want to enjoy the dances I have. Even if you are an artist, people can see if you don’t feel the dance. The best artists are the ones that feel.

When you go to the milonga, sometimes you feel like you are doing everything right.. and another time, everything is wrong. it’s not the technique or loss of knowledge… it’s the lack of feeling. If you feel bad that is okay. it is still a feeling… but to be in your feet and not feel anything.. that is not good.

I always compare the dance with language. You and I have spoken English for an hour. Sometimes I say I can’t speak English. So now I have to think in Spanish and speak in English. After a while I relax and now I can speak English with ease.

Q: Carlos gavita was an artist that transmitted the feeling. He was very slow.. and did nothing.. but the feeling from him was remarkable. He didn’t need to do many steps.

Hector: I met him almost 20 years ago. He was performing and he was an artist 30 – 40 years ago. Carlos was traveling around the world when no one else was traveling. He came back from Europe after being gone for 15 years. He wasn’t competitive. In Tango we have levels. If I’m going to teach and Gavito is also teaching, I respect him. I MUST respect him. He was older, had much more experience

If anyone asks me about Dinzel, Copes… I respect them because they are on another level…. older than me in the profession. We always have something to learn. Sometimes the new teachers, new dancers, they don’t care about the important things. But when we become older, we become wiser. hopefully…

Q: And Nuevo Tango?

Hector: Nuevo Tango – I like it. Everything is going to change and we need to change with the world. Even if I personally don’t change my dance. This is good for the tango. Otherwise we will keep dancing like we did a 100 years ago. We need to change with the times.

and Nuevo music – I like some of it.. and some of it i don’t…. because it doesn’t feel like Tango. The Nuevo dance is different. Some of the new teachers dancers try a different way, and they find a different way or step to do… to see if our body can do it. It is interesting. Maybe I understand because I like to dance other dances too.

Q: How is the Tango different from other dances?

Hector: The tango dance is more important than the tango music. It is a language. Another important thing about the Tango is that you can dance in any part of the world at a Milonga. That doesn’t happen with other dances. Even if you don’t speak the language.

Also , you improvise all the time… and you do that most of the time within the real embrace of your partner. In open embrace you can do many steps, it doesn’t feel like a real embrace. Tango is about the embrace. If you dance ballroom, you hold your partner. but in tango we embrace the partner. In english it is very clear. In Spanish we don’t use the word hold.

When we talk about improvisation.. sometimes it is not pure because you know the step but you improvise the sequence. But in the Tango, you can change in the middle of the step.. then it is pure. You never know what is coming. In ballroom, when you start to do something, you pretty much know what is coming even though you may improvise the sequence. In Tango, you never know… especially if you don’t know your partner. Sometimes, I lead (a question… i ask) and when my partner does something, it is an answer. Sometimes, with a question my partner will answer in a different way and then I need to ask a different question. Sometimes you have to say your question louder. (laugher) One of my teachers, Maestro Dinzel, would always say that each Tango is unique. You can not repeat the experience. Even if you do everything the same, it will not be same.

Q: Any final words of advice?

Hector: Never stop learning. Try to learn the most you can. Even if you are talented, still work, study, rehearse.

by Jackie Wong / Argentina/14 March 2005

The scene There’s a small break during Carolina and Diego’s advanced workshop in New York City, so we’re rushing to grab a bite to eat. Claudia, Dario, and Faye are with us in our mad search for nourishment. We settle on a small shop with great food and desserts but with limited space and loud music. So the interview takes place outside on benches. Fortunately the weather is nice. The setting is relaxed. Carolina and I are sitting down and Diego and Dario are standing up, joking around and laughing. The interview begins.

Q: Why tango and not salsa, ballet, ballroom..

Carolina: Dancing for me just happened. Diego was my boyfriend and he danced. Diego: I was doing Argentine folk dance and the studio where I was taking lessons was offering classes from other countries like Mexico. I decided instead to learn my country’s dance, Tango. To me, Tango is a deep feeling, intimate, and more natural for the body. You can discover something new everyday. whether it is the music or a combination. Carolina: At the time there weren’t many teachers for Tango in Buenos Aires. In one way it was bad because we didn’t have much guidance. But on the other hand, we had unlimited freedom with our creativity. We also thought it would be easy. (everyone laughs)

Q: How would you define your style and how has it evolved?

Diego: Our Tango style is Tango Salon new generation. Our signature is how we communicate when we dance. Carolina: First we do things that feel good.then we work to make the movement look good. Diego: We try to bring the milonga onto the stage. We pretty much dance the same way at the milonga as we do on stage. Of course, we don’t do all our performance moves but the feeling is definitely there. Carolina: When we first started teaching, we were very flashy and fast. Now we are slower and emotionally deeper in our dance.

Q: How does Tango in the U.S. different from other countries?

Carolina: Women in this country try to be perfect. They work very hard and like to learn but they must be careful not to lose sight of the connection. The men in this country need to work harder. (much laughter but more from Carolina and I ) Diego: In Argentina, everyone needs to work more. (laughter) I would say that in Europe and Argentina, the embrace is closer ..more relaxed. Many people here are uncomfortable and want to be more distant physically.

Q: What do you personally like when you dance with someone?

Diego: communication..feeling Carolina: Yes..not self absorbed.

Q: In what ways can a woman/follower be assertive in the dance?

Carolina: It really depends on the leader. If the leader treats the woman as if she is an adornment, there is no communication and the woman can not be assertive. Of course, the woman can decide if she wants to do a castigada instead of a gancho and a tiny brush on the floor instead of a boleo which gives the follower the opportunity to interpret the music. Diego: I feel that before you are partners you are 100% individuals. When you come together you are 50%. We lead but she does the step.

Q: There’s always a debate about ganchos. So, ganchos or no ganchos.

Both: Ganchos. Why not? Just be careful in a crowded space.

Q: What, in your opinion, is the most difficult technical aspect of Tango?

Both: Turns.. All turns.

Q: What is the most common mistake you see?

Diego: The way dancers walk. If tangueros can walk, they can do anything. Also, many dancers do not understand which level they are. Our definition of a beginner is someone who is just starting. An intermediate dancer knows how to walk well and how to lead or follow. An advanced leader can have a combination described to them and they can do it without being shown. Carolina: Often, a woman will dance with an advanced leader and believe that she is an advanced follower because she can dance well with that leader. Then they will complain about the leading of less experienced dancers when truthfully they don’t know how to follow. An advanced follower can dance without a partner and maintain her balance.

Q: What was your best / worst tango moment?

Carolina: I know which one you will say. (looks at Diego) Julio Balmaceda attended our milonga at Caripela’s and we had a great time. We tried different steps and basically the milonga turned into a practica. Both of us felt so inspired and energized afterwards. Diego: Also we have great moments when we perform and have a strong connection with the audience. We can actually use the energy from the audience then. The worst moment is when one of us is inspired and the other isn’t. Carolina: Yes..because the one who isn’t energized feels “hey – don’t dance by yourself”.

Q: How do you feel about alternative Tango music?

Carolina: We both love alternative Tango. Diego:..but it depends on the quality of the music and the feeling. The music must inspire you.

Q: Any advice for tangueros?

Diego: Walk walk walk Carolina: Don’t rush the learning process. Enjoy every stage. Oh, and don’t get frustrated.

Q: So, do you ever feel what we in the Berkshires call tango blues or tango funk?

Carolina: What is that? Oh, to be stuck. It’s good to feel this way because that’s when you change and grow. It’s an opportunity. Diego: It’s okay to take a short break but come back and try different music, different steps, start dancing leading with the right instead of the left, etc.. Just work hard not to be in a box.

Q: What do you feel your strengths are?

Carolina: We still feel that we have a lot to learn about everything. We’re open to every idea and we are good listeners and learn from the questions our students ask.

Q: How do you maintain your relationship and also Tango?

Carolina: Isolate your work from your life. And you must get past the feeling of “it’s your fault not mine”. Diego: Our first priority is our relationship. Carolina: Also we had the advantage of knowing each other before tango.

Q: Which tango dancers do you admire?

Carolina: I’m not sure if admire is the right word. There are dancers who we appreciate but we don’t idolize them. We want to be ourselves. I think there are people who strive to dance like others but really you must find what is good for you. I like Natalia Gomez, Diego’s first partner. Her personality on the stage and off stage is strong. She has conviction and is herself when she dances. Also I would like to mention Melina Brufman. Her milonga is very spontaneous and she manages to dance the same way with beginner and advanced leaders. Diego: I like the way the true milongueros walk.like Pupi, Portalea, and Petaca. They are solid, smooth, natural with personality. Other tango dancers I appreciate are Julio Balmaceda, Osvaldo Zotto, Roberto Reis, and Maria Nieves.

Q: What teaching goals do you have?

Carolina: We want people to have the “feeling” of what we are teaching.not just the actual step. We want to share our knowledge, help people with their technique, and to give them new ideas.

Q: Any tips for performers?

Carolina: I do not use stretchy fabrics because it is not easy to remove your heel if it gets caught. Also I prefer an open toe shoe. Diego: For men, I like shoes from Argentine with a small point. Round toes do not look good. A point helps with achieving a nice line. Ballroom shoes are too soft. I also like pants that are pleated in the front. There’s more room. Another important point is to be careful of fabrics. We did a show where my black coat looked burgundy under the stagelights. Carolina: Yes.there are also different kinds of black.you must make sure you match. I like velvet for the stage. The color is rich and deep. I also use fishnet hose but not black. I like a natural color. Be careful. Don’t buy fishnet with lycra.it will shine under the lights. Diego: A funny suggestion is to use Vaseline or butter for your patent leather shoes so that they don’t stick. (laughter) Seriously, we forgot our Vaseline and had to go into the kitchen and use butter.

Q: Any last comments?

Carolina: We are very happy living in the United States. People are very supportive of us. At first, we couldn’t speak any English but students would take privates anyway. We would just have to pick up their leg to put it in the right place.

Q: Okay.quickly fill in the blank. Tango is…

Diego: Life. Both: love, passion, emotion Carolina: Yes, but I think your first answer is right. Life. Tango is everything.

To contact them or for more information, please visit their website

Carolina Zokalski & Diego Di Falco

Argentina / 17 March 2005

The Diva of Tango, as they named her in the United States, laments: Were at the bottom of the pile I dont have any retirement pension, nobody made my payments. She returns to Corrientes street with Tanguera; and bluntly states: I dont believe in [tango] schools The milonga is the best teacher. Of her personal life she confesses: I let love go by, like a fool for tango.

She started going to the milongas at the Club Atlanta when she was just 12 years old, but in those days she didn’t dance: she accompanied her sister, who did raise the dust on the dance-floor. Maria Nieves Rego, then a young girl, didnt even dream of becoming the most famous Argentine tango dancer at international level. Neither did she imagine that just two years later she would meet the person who was to become her now legendary dancing partner, Juan Carlos Copes, and that together they would form the most popular couple in Argentina, triumphing in the theaters of Corrientes street, on television, and on prestigious stages abroad to close their career together joining the cast of the famous show Tango Argentino. Today, the oh-so-typically Buenos Aires dancer returns on the scene as one of the stars of Tanguera, the musical that has won many awards and critical acclaim and is staged once again at the National Theater. Tango-lover, fully-fledged milonguera in her own right, an impeccable professional, this performer, as much ours as Corrientes street, takes care of every detail for the photos: clothes, make-up, hair-do everything. Afterwards, now in the peace and quiet of her house in Maure street, with the maté and her ever-present cigarettes, she grants an interview, open and sincere. Authentic, as she says.

I learned by watching, girl, nobody taught me, she starts to tell this living legend of the milonga and stage tango

- So, what do you think of the schools
- Im against the schools. Absolutely! Its a con. Nobodys the owner of the truth in tango. I always tell them when I give a lesson: theres no better teacher than to go to the milonga! Wear out shoes, get kicked and have your feet stepped on, and do the same yourself. Its true, girl! Me, for example, I like dancing with a plié, but other like the legs stiff. I say waist, and you go somewhere else and they say: no, move the whole body. So, there isn’t a truth to teach the youngsters.
- Junior Cervila told us in a previous report that you and Copes had given him the gift of a profession, you took tango onto the stage
- Ah, Junio, hes so grateful. There are other dancers who were with us and they never recognize us as references We didnt have references. Do you know who mine was? Cid Charisse. I adored her, I watched her films five or six times. But she was a great ballerina, me just a simple tanguera!
- And at the Club Atlanta, didnt you have a reference there?
- No, no I never, even remotely, thought Id make a career out of tango! I thought that tango was going to dance to have fun, nothing more, like rock. What happened was my ex-partner had the vision to do something with tango. He was a visionary.
- In that era, in the 50s, you did Sunday matinees, didnt you?
- Yes, on Sundays at two in the afternoon wed already be putting on out make-up at the theater. The stars were Nélida Roca, Adolfo Stray, Pepe Arias, all the greats Carlos A Petit, a visionary, said: Lets see what these greenhorns can do and he took us on. There were twenty of us dancing tango, it brought the house down, girl!
- And did they pay well in those days?
- No. They didnt and they dont pay well today. The dancer is the dregs in tango. The singer gets more because they have their recording and its played on the radio. But if were not there they dont see us and we dont get paid.
- Theyre paying young dancers between 50 and 70 pesos a night, but without retirement pension.
- But its not as if Im retired with a pension! I tried to get a retirement pension for all I had given the country and nobody had paid any contributions for me, and Varieties had taken off the percentage. One day, when Im six feet under, theyll give it to me
- Is the dancer very unprotected?
- Totally. Nowadays theres the Association of Teachers and Dancers, but they cant do anything If the government of the City, with the championships, we adjudicated and what they paid us was a pittance
- How do you feel with your young companions in this stage of your career?
- Very good, much-loved. I relax with the youngsters, they look after me, they give me energy and they make a fuss of me.
- When was the last time you and Copes danced together?
- Tango Argentino brought us together in 2000. We went to Broadway to see in the New Millennium. Segovia convinced us and it was the time I was best paid in my life.
- After splitting up, who have you returned to dance with?
- With Luis Pereyra, he gave me the chance, and just think! It was the most applauded number. That was at the Avenida and at the Recova Plaza.
- And after Luisito, you started with Tanguera?
- Yes, but between Luisito and Tanguera I had a long break. Two long years passed until I danced with Luisito. I had a long time without work.
- In your personal life, did you have only one love?
- No. I had various loves. Away from the milonga
- Do you feel you lived what you deserved?
- Yes, because its what I sought.
- And what is it that you looked for?
- I didnt look for anything.
- I mean, what did you seek in a man?
- What any woman likes: a person who gives you love and above all respect. Who values you as a woman.
- And did you find it?
- Yes, but I let it go stupidly, for continuing with tango. Thats why I always say that just as tango gave me so much, I also left much along the way. His name doesnt matter, put Juan, he had nothing to do with this environment.
- Did he demand that you leave tango?
- Of course, he wanted me to leave it. I couldnt convince him, he wanted me all to himself. He wanted a normal life.
- Today, when you lie down and close your eyes, do you think you did the right thing?
- Ah, yes, I sleep very peacefully. It was my choice. I dont complain, I know how to adapt to everything. Having plenty of dosh or not knowing where the next meal will come from. I dont lose any sleep over that.
- Why didnt you have children?
- It wasnt possible, because of the work. I chose not to have them.
- Mariano Mores told me that the greatest reward for him was the publics applause.
- For me the applause is the best vitamin there is. Previously I didnt realize, because I went, danced and they applauded, but now its like it gives me a bit of a surprise to realize how much people care. The years pass and you want to give and you cant give what youd like to, so it seems like people are going to distance themselves. But people love me! People love me! (she repeats it emphatically). The other day I went to dance, they just mentioned my name and the applause didnt stop. I like that but it inhibits me too.
- The City Government has a project to create a tango ballet. Would you like to be called on?
- I dont feel Im a teacher, I get embarrassed teaching. But I do feel able to tell the kids my experiences. I always say: I was born to dance tango and Im going to die dancing tango. My mission in life is sublime, because I realized that I have a something with the public, a very special empathy. When I go out on stage to dance I feel the public under my skin and vice-versa. Because many people say to me: Thank you for the energy you give us. Theres something
- How do you see the milonga today?
- I havent been to the dances for a long time. They call me from all over, but I dont go. I feel like staying at home, getting up early. Im in bed by 9. I live the opposite of what I lived all my life, now I enjoy the day. The daytime people are different from those of the night.
- And what is the formula for getting there as well as you are?
- To dance tango, thats my only secret.
- Are cigarettes your only vice?
- The only one. Absolutely!
- What was it like to meet Duvall?
- He never interested me When we were in Los Angeles he would do asados, I would save myself for the show. Ive always been like that, not going to parties, asados, get-togethers. I would stay at home, I saved myself for the show.
- And of all the companions you had in Tango Argentino, who do you remember most fondly?
- I remember them all because we shared so many years, its not that we did a season together. Like ten years, from the first night in 83 at the Chatelet de Paris. Afterwards I went to various places in Europe until they took us to Broadway and thats when we danced for the White House and they made a tribute to us. We went to Japan twice, all in all we traveled the world. Tango Argentino is one of the shows where we really felt ourselves to be performers and respected. Claudio Segovia and Héctor Orezoli respected us, they found five-star hotels for us and they realized that with that they were respected as impresarios. Apart from being very talented they were very smart.
- It is noticeable how that show, which renews tango and generated a before and after, was made by two artists who werent tangueros.
- But they had the vision. They would always come and they said they wanted to do Tango Argentino and when they went I remember we used to say amongst ourselves: Theyre two head cases, these, theyll never do it, they propose but they never do anything. They were like searching until they found the end of the ball of wool and then they managed it.
- Here nobody gave a peso for the show.
- Yes, here they never gave a peso for tango!
- Do you think this boom is a fashion?
- I hope not. Id like to think these young people that are going to retire eventually, that others are going to fall in love with tango and are going to carry on and do different things, that is what is lacking. Not copies, but different things.
- A true renewal.
- A total renewal. But electronic tango, no! Please!

by Jackie Ling Wong / 1 November 2006

I had the pleasure of taking a day of Milonga Workshops taught by Fabienne Bongard, which were sponsored by Berkshire Tango. I love leading Milonga and wanted to expand my repertoire. I found Fabienne’s instruction to be very clear. She started with the basics and built layers that created a solid foundation for embellishments and improvisations. I highly recommend that milongueros attend her classes at Dance Manhattan in NYC and/or any of her workshops. I certainly benefited from the workshops. Something happened in those few hours. My lead became more confident, definite, and clear.

Fabienne is also a member of Tango Mujer, a performance group of 5 women..Brigitta, Angelika, Valeria, Rebecca, and Fabienne. Now, on to the interview.

The scene: Sunday morning. I woke Shawn and Fabienne up and we checked out Shawn’s new clothes that she bought in Miami.wow..great lacy black stuff. I’m going to Miami for Tango Fantasy so I guess shopping has to be added to my list of things to do. Then Fabienne and I sat down at Shawn’s dinner table with our coffees and baggy eyes. What can I say? We had a late night.

Q: Yesterday I mentioned that Valeria, in describing tango dance styles by element, said that you were water. (Please see interview with Valeria) You were surprised because you see yourself as earthly. Well, I danced with you last night and I think you’re water. You flow.

Of the four elements, I identify with water most. It’s the place I want to be.in the water. I have always felt like a fish but have considered myself more earthlike in the dance. Maybe dancing with Rebecca and Brigitta, who are air, and Angelika, who is fire, has transformed my dancing.

One day I was at the pool where I have a membership and it was so beautiful.with the skylights, stars, etc.. and I was swimming on my back. I was imagining the grace of a whale in a vast ocean and then in the midst of that beauty I bumped into someone that I was sharing the lane with and she was outraged. Obviously I wasn’t in the ocean.

I felt ashamed because I teach leaders not to get lost in the moment and the figures but to be conscious of the other dancers. Whatever magic you try to create with your partner is gone when you bump into someone.

Q: Valeria has said that Angelika is fire, do you agree?

I would agree. She has this tremendous thing that is boiling. She is very dramatic.

Q: How does it translate to dance?

I don’t mean that it’s harsh. It’s soft but can also be explosive. Because she is a woman, she has a soft side.. not like men who you would say are fire. I would think that men would love to be labeled as fire. (laughter)

Q: We talked about the elements (see interview with Valeria), but let’s approach it differently. How would you define your style?

I like the close embrace style and the more rhythmic tangos best. Within the dance I like to play with the lyricism as well. For instance, you might have a prescribed rhythm that is on the surface but at the same time something else is building within the music, which might cause you to approach the dance differently at that moment. That’s fun.

With milonga you must be grounded in the beat. The play and the shaping come not so much lyrically but rhythmically through the use of double time or traspie, which means to stumble.

Q: What attracts you about milonga?

I’m attracted to milonga because of its joyful quality and the fact that it is the origin of tango before it became sophisticated. Milonga is not pretentious. If you dance milonga and you have a wrinkle in your forehead, you have a problem. I say, “Give yourself a break. Things don’t always have to be tragic”.

Smile. Some people will say that this attitude is so untango. There is a reverence to Tango in the way you have to look, your presentation, your clothes, and if you smile you may lose the aura.

I saw a movie, “The Human Nature”, about a scientist who finds someone in a jungle who is not civilized. Anyway, the scientist works to give him culture. When he shows off his product, the ultimate proof of civilization and culture and sophistication was the man’s ability to tango. Can you imagine?!

Q: Shawn: Do you feel that anything has sullied the dance? How about alternative music?

I like alternative music. However when I teach I am more likely to use traditional music with a stronger beat.

Q: Shawn: How about the new “hang” movements coming from Argentina and the West Coast?

I love single axis turns. They are beautiful and thrilling. It’s like being on a roller coaster. It looks good and it feels even better.

Q: Shawn: I used to think that it would take a certain leader, but I was dancing with a pimply, pale computer nerd type and I just listened to the music and I actually had what I call tango heat with him. I was amazed.

Were you having tango heat with him or having tango heat with tango?

Shawn: That’s an interesting question.

Sometimes you can have tango heaven and your partner is not in heaven.

Everyone’s tango heat/magic feels different. When you apply yourself and you are open, all kinds of magical things can happen in the least expected places with the least expected partners. On the other hand, if he is not the partner of your dreams, there’s always the music, the feel of the floor under your feet, the embellishments you make, or maybe the texture of his shirt.

Q: What is tango magic for you?

I was in Buenos Aires attending a Milonga workshop taught by Pepito, the “king of the milonga”. At the end of the workshop, he asked me to dance and afterwards he said, “Oh, we just practiced for 5 years”. I was flying and in the clouds for a whole week. It was a piece of heaven.

Another time I went back to Buenos Aires. Brigitta had told me about this man. And she was right. It was incredible. It was like he was whispering things. You had to pay attention but once you understood and listened it was like you were on a mountaintop. He was like wind.

Q: Has teaching altered how you feel about Tango?

At the beginning, when Rebecca and I were practicing a lot, it felt like we had a toy.this puzzle..it was so exciting. Now, sharing this puzzle with my students and watching that same excitement occur for them is very gratifying.

Q: What is the most difficult aspect of tango and milonga?

For milonga, a difficult aspect is to stay grounded and to not let it take you. For tango, it’s keeping it all together..the music, the pattern, the floorcraft.

For teaching, it’s difficult to alter how students relate to the floor. Another delicate area is what I call “stretching” the musical ear. Like hearing the syncopa.

Q: How would you describe your ideal partner?

From a leader, I look for musicality, inventiveness and if there’s humor, it’s bliss. Also I like it when they don’t break your arm with a frame that is only conscious of its image. A good leader accommodates the follower and looks out for her well being on the dance floor and within the embrace.

From a follower, I like someone who is good enough that you can be creative and not have to watch out for them constantly to make sure that they do the cross etc. Good energy and staying in the moment is also important.

If your partner is limited just play with the music and keep the movement simple.

Q: Okay, being in the Berkshires now, a small town, do you feel tango is different outside of New York City?

Well, the scenes are smaller and there is less variety. And I think that, when you rely on guest teachers, you have just sketches of style and method Of course, when options are limited, it’s better than nothing.

It’s good to go to different teachers once you have a good base because sometimes a teacher just gives a different perspective or angle and suddenly you understand. It becomes clear. Pablo Pugliese tells me that his father would say “Just stay with me for two years and then go out and experience other teachers. But first, be grounded in one. ”

Q: When did a light go off for you?

The light still goes off for me. I can look at something and say, “This is brilliant!” and then suddenly realize that it goes back to a simple component. I get a kick out of learning a new way of explaining things.

Q: We all know that the tango schools in Manhattan have different personalities. What is Dance Manhattan’s?

I would say that we have a very open approach at Dance Manhattan. Each teacher has a different personality and approach, and therefore, we attract a wide range of people. I think a school needs to keep its mind open to new possibilities and that’s what we do.

We’re also different from other schools because our basic program is designed to make people think in terms of the follower. It’s a strong, demanding program that lasts for 16 weeks.

Q: Where do you see yourself in 5 years?

I came to the states saying that I wanted to stay here 6 months, thinking that maybe I would stay longer but not saying anything. I don’t know. My husband is from the West Indies. It would be nice to be in the sun and somewhere near water.

Q: Tango is…

Evolving. We see that the experience of yesterday is not the experience of today. You have to be open in order to create more magic for yourself and others.

You can reach Fabienne at 212 489 – 6283

Interviewed by Mariela Franganillo
Filmed by Jeff Milton
New York City/13 May 2007

There is no way your words can be tracked back to you!  So please speak freely.

What are/were the problems with LD and/or KG?

How could they be improved (if you were in charge)?